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UCAIug > Proposed UCAIug IPR Policy  

Proposed UCAIug IPR Policy

This discussion is to collect comments on the Proposed UCAIug IPR Policy, dated 1 June 2011
  
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Started: 6/1/2011 3:45 PM
Picture Placeholder: Benton.Vandiver
Benton.Vandiver
IPR review
Kay - looks pretty solid to me, no editorial comments. Benton
Started: 6/1/2011 4:07 PM
Picture Placeholder: tony.adams
tony.adams
CIM definition
I'm not an expert in the field by any means, but I did notice in sections 1.1 and 2 that CIM is defined as the "Customer Information Model".  However, I read from the CIMug homepage the following:

"Unlike a protocol standard, the common information model (CIM) is an abstract model ..."

I'll continue reviewing and post any edits that I come across.  Sorry to be such a stickler Kay...
Started: 6/1/2011 5:18 PM
Picture: Steve.Van Ausdall
Steve.Van Ausdall
Define "derivative work"
In Section 3.1, it mentions that Public Documents may be used to create derivative works. I believe that derivative works should be defined, and Section 3.2 should state whether creation of derivative works is a valid use of Private Documents.
Started: 6/1/2011 5:21 PM
Picture: Steve.Van Ausdall
Steve.Van Ausdall
Define Entity and Organization
In Section 3.2, it states that Private Documents may be used within an entity or organization. I belive these terms should be defined. For example, can they be shared with clients or contractors?
Edited: 6/3/2011 10:57 AM
Picture Placeholder: tomasz.rogowski
tomasz.rogowski
Commnets to IPR doc
It looks pretty  mature, but I agree with both comments ("Define Entity and Organization" and "Define derivative work") posted by Steve Van Ausdall 
Started: 6/6/2011 6:35 AM
Picture Placeholder: Tatjana.Kostic
Tatjana.Kostic
Definition of CIM
Customer Information Model should read Common Information Model in several places in the document.
Started: 6/7/2011 11:53 PM
Picture Placeholder: Edward.Dobrowolski
Edward.Dobrowolski
IPR comments
No substantive comments but I don't think it is good form to ask for comments on a document that hasn't been proof-read. 

Edd
Started: 6/22/2011 11:02 AM
Picture Placeholder: Clemens.Hoga
Clemens.Hoga
IPR comments
Dear Kay and all -  
we (collegues familiar with IPRs and me) have quickly gone through the draft of your UCAlug IPR Policy and have some comments.  
In our comments the underlined are words that we think should be added to the text.
 
In "Definitions":
 
--Contribution
Contributions should be those directly submitted to UCAlug by a Contributor,
- ...
- to any UCAlug document library or
- to any UCAlug discussion forum, or...
 
--"Implementing Technology" seems to be defined vaguely, and, there is also a typographically error that might be important. We propose it should read - "Technology required for implementing or complying with a standard" 
Also we propose to think about alternatives for the expression required:  Does the word required mean "necessary" or "critical" or "essential" for implementing or complying with a standard? It probably is critical or required and necessary as an alternative. 
 
--International Standards:
International Community: What community are you specifically referring to?  We think the definition should be clearer.
 
--Reasonably and personally known  - Here we propose the wording should be   "The rule creates a presumption that . . . is deemed to have some   knowledge related to  the IPR of the company . . . . " 
Also, line 12, organization, entity or company in any capacity did not have any knowledge of the IPR of that organization . . . ." 
(Reason: No one can have knowledge of the IPR of the company as written, as this implies they know  or should know ALL the IPR of the company).
 
---TC or Technical Committee - (should be  those who are assigned the responsibility, not ownership, ownership is a special word implying other rights)
 
In "Article 5.2 IPR Disclosure":
 
Must close such IPR to UCAlug "as soon as the Contributor becomes aware"  - appears unreasonable or impossible.  We propose it should read, "as soon as practicable" after becoming aware or should have been aware."  This allows one the time necessary to disclose without having to stop everything, especially since employees, anyone, etc. under the 'Reasonably and personally known' definition, already are said to know the IPR under the definitions.  The amendments to that definition suggested above might help make more reasonable this requirement.  Also, the "take whatever action it deems appropriate" is definitely too vague to be generally acceptable and should be modified to specific remedies.
 
Also, it does seem, difficult to imagine that any change to IPR, including limiting amendments or narrower claims to technology, would need a form submitted every time it changes.
 
 
-- Steve (Your posts "Define Entity and Organization" and "derivative work") -
 
We think that you are right - rights to created derivative works are not addressed here in 3,2 and should be clarified.  Of course, the general question remains, who determines what are private and what are public ?
Our reading of 3.2 is that Private Documents can only used for his "individual use or its respecitive entity or organization", and, therefore, should not be shared with clients or contractors.  But, individual use could be defined to make sure that it couldn't be shared with clients or contractors.

Best regards
Clemens
Started: 6/22/2011 5:17 PM
Picture Placeholder: bill.muston
bill.muston
Comments to IPR Document
At 3 Development at Use of UCA Documents, the opening paragraph states "UCAIug Public Documents and Private Documents may NOT be posted on any Server other than UCAIug Servers, without the express prior permission of UCAIug."  This literally means it may not be posted on corporate internal use servers by corporate member of UCAIug without permission, such as a sharepoint.  Question - is this internal-use-for-corporate-members restriction without first obtaining permission an intended restriction?  Just checking.


At 7 Notifications 7.1 and 7.2 for the language that is in quotes and italics that is to be included statements of no identified IPR or identified IPR:  the term IPR should be spelled out in the original words for the 1st use each location.


CIM - Agree with comments that it should be Common Information Model, not Customer Information Model.

Started: 11/2/2011 1:46 PM
Attachment
Picture Placeholder: Edward.Dobrowolski
Edward.Dobrowolski
IPR document comments
Comments in redline attached document.

Edd
Edited: 11/4/2011 11:41 AM
Attachment
Picture Placeholder: Ralph Mackiewicz
Ralph Mackiewicz
Ralph's Comments on Final IPR Draft
My comments on the IPR Final draft:

1. Bolded and Capitalized the UCAIug disclaimers in the IPR notice text for added emphasis.

2. highlighted some text that should be deleted.
Started: 11/18/2011 1:03 AM
Picture Placeholder: rodney.hughes
rodney.hughes
a few inconsistencies

What I have seen of IPR is that lawyers can drive the entire historical output of Ford vehicles through them without a scratch and not be in breach.  The first thing is to think like a lawyer, one word at a time.

Cl 1.2 – what are the “three different cases”?

Clause 2 says “UCAIug Members work in a collaborative effort ….. to identify, develop, create and publish documents that contain requirements, implementation agreements and training materials

The definition of “publish” is (http://www.thefreedictionary.com)

1. To prepare and issue (printed material) for public distribution or sale.

2. To bring to the public attention; announce.

 

In para 2 it then says “Any such document may contain IPR of the Contributor.”  Clearly if the contributor posts any of their intellectual property info into a UCAIUG document, knowing its purpose as stated earlier in Cl2, they are effectively assigning rights to the UCAIUG to use that intellectual property – otherwise they wouldn’t put it there!!!.  Hence the subsequent statement “the copyright does not include the IPR of the Contributor since that is the property of the Contributor.” is clearly incorrect, it is no longer their property.

The next problem is “Except as provided under sections 2.1 and 2.2 below, UCAIug Public Documents and Private Documents may NOT be posted on any Server, other than UCAIug Servers, or any other media allowing either restricted or unrestricted access without the express prior permission of UCAIug.”  Given that the objective stated earlier in CL 2 is to “publish documents that contain requirements, implementation agreements and training materials”, clearly it is not possible if these “published” documents cannot reside anywhere except on a UCAIUG server – I cannot even put it on my PC to look at whilst flying in a plane let alone use it to train anyone even if it retains the UCAIUG slide format and logo – counter productive to “publishing” training materials, or guideline documents or anything … I'm reasoanably certain no-one will be asking UCAIUG if they can download a document off the web site. This seems absolutely contrary to the purpose of having a Public Document and will burden Kay incredibly with requests to use this slide, that specification ….

Cl 2.1 Public documents can be used to produce “Derivative Works”  Great however if I want to use any part of said Public Document to create a larger training module or standard, I have to first ask UCAIUG and get their written authority. again counter intuitive and contradictory to the purpose of "publishing" precisely with the intent of SDOs or organisations to use the information.

Indeed it says “Public Documents may be used by any Member or non-Member for the following purposes: For reference; for creating Derivative Works; for Sharing;…..”  If they have been produced for Sharing, why does written approval need to be obtained from UCAIUG to do so?

Cl 2.2 refers to “Private” information– what does “Use” mean.  If it is a corporate member they can use it to produce documents and training material for use within their own organisation – but if it is to produce a specification issued to a contractor they are in breach.  Or if they are a consultant, they cannot reference the information in undertaking work for their client.  As an Individual, they can use it for their own “personal use” – unless they produce documents for themselves to read (??), what purpose can they use it for – can they produce training material that they present to others in their own or other organisations?

Cl 4.2   or should have known” seems unnecessary – if they don’t actually “know” they would not disclose and never be prompted to do so.  Once they do “know”, then they are bound by the previous requirement to disclose it.

“Failure to disclose IPR allows UCAIug to take whatever action it deems appropriate.”  What does this mean – is it in the wrong sense?

Second dot point should read

  • notify the IPR holder of receipt of such advice; and

although the third dot point has an inherent process of the UCAIUG to notify the holder in the first place (dot point two can be removed without loss of process).

Cl 5 – “interoperable” does not directly imply “plug and play”

Started: 11/18/2011 5:49 PM
Picture Placeholder: Greg.Congleton
Greg.Congleton
Individual Member working for Corporate Member
the policy sttes that and individual member can only use Private Documents for their own personal use and are not allowed to share Private Documents with anyone.  How is this applied when an individual member is working under contract for a corporate member?  Is the individual member considered to be within the entity of the Corporate member?
Started: 11/19/2011 12:11 PM
Attachment
Picture Placeholder: Paul.Duffy
Paul.Duffy
Cisco comments re: IPR final draft 110111
Cisco commentary is within the attached document.  Essentially our concern is that IPR rules apply to written submissions only, as is typical in many other venues.
Started: 11/21/2011 2:08 PM
Picture Placeholder: tsaxton
tsaxton
IPR draft - what is the perceived need for this IPR?
Before voting, could you please explain what the problem is that you feel the need to solve with this IPR? I have not been aware we need to copyright materials produced in the CIMug. Why start now?

Terry Saxton